Despite all that talk about LeBron James’ return to Cleveland being about more than just basketball, at the end of the day, it’s clear that he believes the Cavaliers have a much bigger upside than his former squad, the Miami Heat.
At the unveiling of his 12th signature shoe Tuesday night, LeBron touted his new teammate Kyrie Irving. James says that Irving could soon replaced Chris Paul as the L’s top floor general (James also added that new Cavs big man Kevin Love is also in the discussion among the best power forwards):
LeBron on returning to Cleveland: "My impact is bigger than the game of basketball." #LEBRON12
— SLAM Magazine (@SLAMonline) September 16, 2014
LeBron on Kyrie Irving: "It's part of the reason I came back… I think he can be the best point guard in our league." #LEBRON12
— SLAM Magazine (@SLAMonline) September 16, 2014
Did anyone really believe that he was going back just to go home?
Probably some of the fans in Cleveland.
As delusional as some of them are, even they have to see the reality of the Cavs having a more promising future than the Heat being a huge draw.
I can’t wait to see how LeBron “make’s Kyrie better” ::eye roll::
Kyrie can’t be better without the ball and only spot up shooting.
Just like Napier will be the best guard in the draft?
the real question is if Kyrie Irving will ever be a better basketball player than D Wade, now or in the future. Thus far, he is not. And if Kyrie is not now and in the future, then Lebron made a horrid basketball decision similar to his play style in crunch time!
Kevin Love went to lame a$$ Cleveland for the opportunity to play with Lebron. If you are willing to do that you are willing to do anything..Kevin Love could have easily went to Miami whether it be in one year or right now via trade to Miami.
regardless Cleveland was not a big draw for any free agent other than LeBron james…
“similar to his play style in crunch time!”
Sigh…
Only reason they are a huge “talent” is because LeBron… Make no mistake, they maybe could’ve been an 8th seed if this all didn’t go down. Kevin Love is obviously only there because LeBron and who knows what will become of Wiggins. Let’s not forget just last year these guys didn’t make the playoffs. It’s not a guarantee ship at all.
Yeah I mean that play has only afforded him two finals mVPs and more importantly two trophies. People are so delusional. If you look at the numbers LeBron has a higher percentage in last minute of the game than Kobe. Don’t believe me? Look it up. Only Carmelo and one other ( can’t remember right now) have a better shooting % in the last seconds.
hey only shooting less than 20 or so times in the weening seconds of the game when your in your what your 11th season, doesn’t sound like excellent basketball decisions but whatever your entitled to your own and obviously wrong opinion on the matter.
He never said the best. He said his favorite. Huge difference. Still yet to be seen too, so can’t really even say anything yet.
Wanna provide the evidence for that?
what he shoot like 17 shots in clutch situations in how many playoff games? Still only shooting like .44 at best? This isn’t rocket science.
who cares about percentage..when you are the best player on the court, you are supposed to shoot the last shot plain and simple, thats how the greats carry themselves. He is also carrying something like 3 finals losses, all of them blowouts too..something Lebron stans never seem to get.
It’s not about shooting it’s about making the right basketball play.. And I mean of course you know more about that than LeBron, you’re some random dude on a comment thread on the internet.. Much like me, except I’m not knocking the best player in the world.. I’m defending the stupid comment the op made.
its not about shooting, its about winning. As far as I’m concerned a Lebron James led team lost more than they won when it counts the most. Second place is another loser, and on top of that he surrounded himself with teammates who are #1 options thinning out the talent.
Irving and Love should be capable enough to carry themselves as #1 options on teams, but hey they choose to be groupies and Lebron chooses to lead groupies.
Yeah, find that stat for me. Don’t just tell it to me.
clutch fg% is a pretty useless stat considering that star players draw way more defensive attention than role players who relatively often have better clutch fg% than star players. does that make those guys better or more clutch players? nope! they are just wide open more often in the clutch than star players.
considering james appeared in the last 4 finals winning 2 rings with 2 finals mvp trophies his “decision making” (i guess you are more referring to his willingess to take shots, right?) in the clutch cant be that bad after all.
most games are decided before clutch time anyway, even in the playoffs. to be “clutch” is a nice extra, but not that often of importance as most fans think.
how about..no!
*but bro are you serious? Before last year he was like 7/16 on 4th qtr shots with 2 seconds or less in the game… two of them were travels. The travel against Washington in his first playoff series..and the travel against Indiana when he walked in for the left hand layup
there you go. http://stats.nba.com/leaguePlayerClutch.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=100&SeasonType=Playoffs&sortField=FGA&sortOrder=DES
he really doesnt take that many shots at the end of games. the question is just: does he really need to?
idk the only finals victor of his that was impressive was the Thunder series. In the spurs series lightning struck a basketball court. What happened was just not supposed to happen.
The Heat also lucked out immensely in the last 4 seasons, all this talk about being in the finals is overblown when your regular season record is not all time great. They weren’t even #1 in the conference by wins in 3/4 regular seasons too.
“The Heat also lucked out immensely in the last 4 seasons”
does that really matter? just look at how lucky the shakobe lakers got against the blazers, kings and spurs during their threepeat. does anybody remember them as not dominant or luckers? i dont think so. when you win you win. if you got lucky, it took alot of effort and good play down the stretch to put yourself in a position to luck out.
im not a lebron james fan at all and i see him as one of the biggest douches on earth, guess many of us share this view. but some of us let this influence their “basketball narrative” / perception of his play.
we are used to hero-ball heroics as the most dominant baller we grew up watching was mj. then came kobe (the real deal was duncan tho, but who really appreciated that before he gave lebrons heat the business?). i wonder how we would see lebron if he came right after magic retired instead of jordan. i think some of us would even call him a little too selfish at times.
Not a LeBron “Stan” just not a LeBron Hater.. Never seen such a great player in any sport get hated on so much. Best players carry themselves by taking the final shot? No matter what? That’s called being selfish. Some people are more Magic than Michael… Doesn’t make them worse, just choose to rely on teammates by making the right play instead of forcing the shot.
Yes, but for Lebron it was only down to two realistic choices: stay in Miami or go back to Cleveland. He’s too PR/legacy focused to jump on to another contender to win a ring. So between the two, Cleveland is definitely the better long term choice in terms of on court performance
exactly my point. e.g. the heat came up short in the last finals not because lebron was a bad clutch player, wich he isnt in my book anyway, but simply because of the spurs having the superior team collective, playing (arguably. not much tho) the most intelligent basketball we have ever seen.
I agree. See, you my friend.. Know basketball.
Don’t hold your breath. I’m waiting for someone like him to come on here and say “Kevin Durant lost has 100% of the finals he played, so he’s not one of the best players in the NBA.”
No he said best!
can he be one of the better guards? sure.
i still really don’t see kyrie as a point guard
I agree, I think if Wade was healthy, he stays in Miami a few more seasons.
be a man lloyd not a youngin i thought i told you this already..
whispering around like a gossip queen.
Well under lebron tulege its certainly possiblewithin the next four seasons
Hell no
So what he barely shoots in those situations
no the shakobe lakers were dominant. They had tough series, but how many of them series actually went to 7? When push came to shove, Shaq and Kobe shined anyway. They never got blown out except for against the spurs like once or twice and the pistons..this pistons mind you was amidst the craziest LA season as far as beefing between the two went.
Lebron James led teams got blown out by many many squads, I mean they looked useless against the Magic, Spurs, Spurs, Mavs, Celtics. Dude has gotten blown out, waisted in games. Kobe and the young Lakers got owned too. So yeah, It does matter, how many put Kobe in the top ten? But Lebron gets it cause he is a stat stuffer.
let pposse be your guide Caboose, when you relay this info to your little buddies, you cite pposse as your source, you will be good with that.
No he said favorite
How do you label him? Just “guard”?
“No way u take another PG in the lottery before Napier.”
Take that how you will. But sounds to me like he’s saying he’s the “best”…
yeah i guess. i think positions are overrated. but i think he gets labeled a point mostly because he is the guy bringing the ball up, he is not really a set up guy. he reminds me some of gilbert arenas who always brings the ball up but does it mostly as a scorer. this year will be very interesting as kyrie will have to be of the ball more than ever before
he left South Beach and Pat Riley to go back and play with at the time was only Kyrie Irving and then after he was officially back with the Cavs then the flood gates opened in free agency and now they are a stacked team.
it pretty much came down to playing with Wade or Irving for the next few years.
Oh sorry for secretly whispering about you behind your back…on this public forum that literally anyone in the world with internet access is able to see.
Exactly.
But he was getting Kyrie Irving, an All-Star PG and the next perceived rookie phenom regardless. The future looked brighter for the Cavs before the Love trade.
Just Wade wasn’t enough anymore. The Heat couldn’t give Lebron, Wade, and Bosh the amount of money they deserved and still make a sufficient amount of moves to bring in good role players to flush out their roster. The Cavs looked a lot more promising.
you are forgiven. Now go, be on your way.
You’re an idiot.
“The future looked brighter for the Cavs before the Love trade.”
One of the most stupid things I have seen in my life. < Okay that's a bit harsh, but say whaaaa? Defend that position please or I'll counter if you'd rather.
Yeah I agree with all that, but why does a point guard have to set up people as a first option? We have about half the labeled PG’s in the L not doing that as a first option. Shouldn’t the label change with the times?
Shawn Marion
In the context of this discussion, we’re deciding which team would look more promising to Lebron James when he’s deciding between the two, so we’re either omitting him from both, or including him with both. Also, this is long term, so which team can be competitive for longer.
Which team looks better? A bunch of young talents who have the potential to be really good (Irving, Waiters, Wiggins, Bennett, Thompson, Zellers) or basically the same team you dragged to the finals highlighted by the shells of DWade and Danny Granger (how many more productive seasons do those two have left?) and the disappearing act who was Chris Bosh? McBob isn’t significant enough to sway me on staying either.
I haven’t looked into it, but Ray Allen has got to be on that list.
Full of Bs…great player who should keep his mouth shut… Just saying !!!
The only “context I’m debating is the sentence you wrote that is: “The future looked brighter for the Cavs before the Love trade.”
So a teams main goal is to be “competitive”?
I realize you’re a Raptors fan, but that’s not the goal. The goal is to win a championship. Period. The goal has become more achievable – with out a doubt – with the addition of Kevin Love.
You mistook my meaning. I’m not saying Cleveland’s future looked brighter before the Love trade than it does now. I’m saying Cleveland, as they were before the Love trade, had a brighter future than the Heat.
A championship is the ultimate goal of any team. That goes without saying. How do you win a championship? You put yourself in a position to be competitive. If you can do so long term, you have multiple seasons where you can potentially compete for a championship…
i think have just started associating point guard with pass first. if the player is not, then he is labeled “not a true point”. labels could change, personally i don’t care, it won’t change what happens on the field.
I see man. My bad.
Idk, I feel like he knew that Love trade or something similar was going to be in the works. I find it really peculiar that he never once reached out to Wiggins after the Cavs drafted him, he had to know he was outta there.
U dont have any idea what ur talking about do u? Kyrie is alot better than wade!!! U guys are just mad because this didnt happen to ur team
What we don’t know is how badly he wanted to leave Miami. Considering he carried those sacks of potatoes called teammates to the finals, I wonder if he would have left no matter what the Cavs future looked like.
Kyrie better than Wade? Since when?!
Remember that the second one was almost not (LeBron missed final shot), absolute fluke turn of events gave Allen a shot.. otherwise it would be 1-4 in the finals with 1 finals MVP.
He has outlived the choke rep for the most part, but not because of the second finals MVP. He literally did choke the final shot of the series away if it wasn’t for Bosh/Allen
Rookies have to prove themselves before they get respect from superstars in the NBA its always been that way.
Love requested to go to Golden State or Chicago at first and then LeBron went back to Cleveland and then Love changed his mind afterwards.
Chalmers would like to have a word with you.
When does the talk for 70 start? They have the best SF & best player, the best PG, the best PF, also somebody who thinks they’re the best SG.
R u serious??? Napier won’t amount to much in the NBA. I would take Tyler Ennis over that clown any day
i have always wondered , what if Denver won the 03 lottery, and Bron was drafted into the western conf. that would have had an immense impact on his legacy.
his last bucket for the heat was a game winner…
He still could have left for the Heat the same way he did. Legacy is pretty much the same, unless he was already winning championships in Denver. So what you’re seeing would be his baseline.
Kyrie is nothing like Wade. He is a better shooter but way way worse defender. He can’t defend worth crap. Wade was blocking shots like crazy. Wade was still a very efficient scorer due to his FTs even though he couldn’t make a 3 efficiently. Yeah I’m talking in past tense because he’s just a shell of himself now. Darn knees getting in the way.
How’s that possible when they lost the finals.
he wanted to collect the best players together so he joined the guard that already was st the team and invited the three point shooting F/C to come join….. its the LeBron Rules 2.0
He carried a heavier sack of potatoes with Cleveland. And he’d be going back to play for Dan “Comic Sans” Gilbert.
As they were, the Heat could’ve still competed for a championship this season if Lebron stayed. Also, given a couple of seasons, Riley could’ve put another championship team around him. He just present and immediate future choice.
so MJ was selfish, okay got it. He also won 6 rings in 8 years (1 of which he was fully retired). And don’t kid yourself, no one on the planet would take the option of being a Magic over being a Jordan if they had a choice.
You don’t grow up playing basketball as a kid passing the ball to a cone in your driveway for a last second shot, you don’t..you take the last shot.
its not that simple. being in denver from 03-10 would have changed everything. anyways, enough of this.
marion
so the reach out to napier was nothing? he said good things about him, but never something about wiggins… kind of peciliar if you ask me… no way in hell did james not know that he could use wiggins as a bargaining chip.
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2 game 7s for the Lakers during Shaq/Kobe’s 3 peat (in 3 seasons)
3 games 7s for the Heat during LeBron/Wade/Bosh (in 4 seasons)
they were still dominant. I mean one year removed from Kobe Shaq picks up a ring with Wade, while Kobe was for all intents and purposes the best player. The Lakers were hardly challenged. Lebron and co though ha..they were supposed to be dominant, but frankly they let a lot of teams win games on them that shoudln’t have happened.
4 finals appearances in 4 years with 2 championships ….. is also dominant.
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maybe not dominant like you would like.
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but still, dominant. and unheard of.
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not even those “more” dominant Lakers teams did that.
they dominated one conference not the league.
2 championships in 4 years is dominating the league. when you have 30 teams, and 1 team wins half the titles in a span of time, that is the definition of dominant.
no its not. They dominated one conference that is all. They and Lebron in general got spanked by one two many different teams to be considered dominant. You know why else the Lakers were dominant? Cause it was literally only one team that beat them in the league. Lebron got molly whopped by a handful of teams.
spanked?
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the Lakers with Shaq/Kobe to San Antonio (Twice, swept once) and Detroit. They were also swept by Utah, and beat by Utah in 5 games while Kobe was still a teenager.
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the Heat with LeBron lost to Dallas and San Antonio.
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“spanked” lol
lost in 6 in humiliating fashion to dallas, and got spanked by SA in 5. Lebron, himself got whooped by Orlando, Celtics, Spurs.
The loss LA had to detroit was the end of their dominance and premature dismantling of the team. Counting Utah is accurate but doesn’t mean anything cause that was all pre Phil Jackson. You know dang well I was speaking of the Jackson Kobe Shaq Lakers.
oh, the losses in Cleveland matter now? lol that’s one hell of a reach. You have run out of road, please turn around and head back where you came.
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they lost to Dallas and San Antonio in embarrassing fashion ….. the Lakers lost to Utah / San Antonio / Detroit in embarrassing fashion.
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not much different.
yes actually it was much different. Kobe was a teenager was he not? Did you not type out those words?
Lebron was an MVP when he got owned by the magic, celtics, spurs and dallas.
you are talking about how dominant the Heat were with LeBron compared to the Lakers with Shaq/Kobe …… maybe your ADD kicked in or whatever. Take your time, maybe even a deep breath. idk, whatever it takes for you to pay attention to the conversation you are taking part in enough to stick with the subject at hand.
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we get it. you don’t like LeBron and will jump at any perceived opportunity to knock down what he or his teams have done. we really really do.
NBK the lakers won 3 rings, went to 4 finals in 5 years, had 7 straight deep playoff runs while the heat got to 4 finals in 4 years and lost half of them. Both times they lost they got r kelly’d and it wasn’t bc the whole team quit on eachother. The Heat only dominated the EC, not the league.
3 rings in 8* tries…..4 finals in 5 years.
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2 rings in 4 tries…..4 finals in 4 years.
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WELP.
you answered your question..4 years vs 7 big difference kind of close to half the longevitiy.
lol ….. I don’t have a question. It’s pretty clear who the more dominant team was over their tenure.
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the 2001 Lakers were the “most dominant” single team of the group, but as a whole, the Miami 4 year run is “more dominant” than LA’s 8 year run
not at all. 3 championships is 3 years is more dominant than 2 in 4.
cool story. and that’s true. if only the “tenure” of that Lakers squad was only 3 years long.
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either way, your point wasn’t that the Lakers were “more dominant” …. your point was that Miami “wasn’t dominant”
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still, completely wrong.
and they were not! They got beat too many times, and didn’t last long at all. They were supposed to be dominant, but hell they had to go thru hell and high water just to win their two rings. Lebron’s fault too mind you.
Did the refs help the lakers
He still said “favorite”, not “best”.
Combo Guard.
If you’re f*cking dense. No offense.
The Cleveland Cavaliers will make the playoffs this year. I guarantee it.
Since Wade’s third knee surgery in 2012?
against sub 50 win teams no less. How the the pavers and Celtics toook heat to seven games is beyond me
Yeah like the lakers wouldnt have made four straight finals in that injuryvriddled joke of a conference
Have a nice weekend
Your really counting the years that Kobe was a teenager? Your joking right? Derrick rose and Dwight Howard both satay healthy in 2012 and they wouldn’t have made four straight finals. Let’s not forget chicagobwas the bigggest threat that year and the heat were still taken to the limit by lesser teams like the pavers who shouldn’t have even been in that series and the celtics
Have a nice weekend
thats what I’m saying! man people just spin it like “the Heat were not constructed very well” maybe the Heat just underperformed. The Heat was the same team that won like 29 straight games.
Lol nice way of dodging a the causation. You too
I’m not reading your comments actually, I’m not interested in discussing anything today or this weekend, so have a good one.
dont think he will be better than Wade but Irving could definitely be a superstar.
Lakers during that era played against sub-par finals teams.
When Lebron went to miami, he wasn’t who he is now. He understands economics and his presence in it now… not only was the hometown pitch made to him but also how he could help the people of Cleveland by coming back. He went back to help his city’s economy…. I’m in miami, Overtown and its schools has had an almost complete renovation due to the economic boost he gave Miami when he came.
didn’t the lakers go 15-1 in one of those playoff runs? cmon man, that team was all time dominant. Kobe Shaq could have won 8 rings no question just as long as they got their egos in check.
*they played against sub par competition. No one outside of Duncan was competing with them.
If he never will be better than Wade, then I don’t understand this move from Lebron at all from a winning standpoint. To clarify i’m talking about who will be better from this year going forward. Kyrie doesn’t have to be better than prime Wade or anything just the Wade right now.
I don’t think he was ever better than Wade up to this point, if Wade falls off a cliff this year Irving may be better going forward. Even with the knee problems Wade understands how to control a game, and still scores wtf does Kyrie do better? Shoot? maybe but thats about it.
Hero ball doesn’t matter as much…. only to fans who like that kind of thing. Spurs, 04 Pistons, 08 Boston, 11 Dallas all had great teams defeating that hero ball nonsense.
lebron is a mark, and its not even a bad thing.
he would have reached out to Wiggins ASAP and had him at his casa and all that rahh rahhh ishh
maybe they would have? but they didn’t.
I’m not “counting” anything. If you can read, I clearly mentioned the context of the loss in Utah. Take those out, you still have 2 losses after they proved to be a championship team. Get as defensive as you want, I have said nothing even sort of wrong.
are you really that out of touch with reality that you think people have to dodge your arguments?
Apperantly
Of course not the conference wasn’t historically weak and injury ridden but carry on with that ridiculous comparison
Ah my mistake I misread that’s my bad
Magics Lakers didn’t do it in an equally weak Western Conference. A weak conference is not something new, and this east was only “historically” weak if you play with what stats you focus on. The 80s west, late 90s / all of 2000s east were all terrible. Nobody uses those facts to diminish an accomplishment. Guess what? I’m not either. And you should be used to that by now.
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Also, idk if you ever looked up the definition of comparison, but it’s about 2 “like” things, not 2 “exact copies of each other with the same context” – you don’t have to like what I said, and your certainly not going to change my opinion on the matter either
I do keep that in mind when comparing bird and magic. I keep it in mind and when people keep mentioning shaq finals MVPs along with Lebron getting to the 07 finals. Not everyone weighs level of competition heavily obviously its just something that I thinks needs to be taken into account more
BTW just because the majority/general consensus does one thing it doesn’t automatically make it correct
…..and you also take it into account when it’s completely unnecessary. do you need me to break down why the “context” of which conference they were in is irrelevant?
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ppose said, “They had tough series, but how many of them series actually went to 7? When push came to shove, Shaq and Kobe shined anyway. They never got blown out except for against the spurs like once or twice and the pistons.”
nbk said, “2 game 7s for the Lakers during Shaq/Kobe’s 3 peat (in 3 seasons)
3 games 7s for the Heat during LeBron/Wade/Bosh (in 4 seasons)”
“4 finals appearances in 4 years with 2 championships ….. is also dominant.
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maybe not dominant like you would like.
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but still, dominant. and unheard of.”
“the Lakers with Shaq/Kobe to San Antonio (Twice, swept once) and Detroit.
the Heat with LeBron lost to Dallas and San Antonio.”
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and there is your context, devoid of the need to mention conference, as it’s irrelevant to the facts being discussed.
ok? now this is me just relaying the opinion of the majority? that’s my new schtick is it?
I didn’t say that. I just said that just because the general consensus says one think doesn’t mean its right?
And that’s not mentioning how the heat have been pushed to the limit by teams that weren’t all that good. When have the shaq/kobe Lakers ever under perofirmed against weak teams like that?
“weren’t all that good” — one of those teams you picked to make the finals last season….and the other won a title 4 years prior.
plus, devoid of having a completely moronic discussion, we realize basketball is a sport of match ups don’t we? the Heat did struggle with lesser teams ….. and so did the Lakers.
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were the teams the Heat struggled with weaker than those the Lakers did? yes. Were the Heat as good as those Lakers? no.
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if you want to mention some of the context, might as well mention all of it.
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the Lakers got blown out in the playoffs twice (03 by San Antonio, and 04 by Detroit, despite having two top 12 players in their prime.
can’t say that about Miami.
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so please, if you are going to make a “Miami wasn’t dominant because they lost embarrassingly, or almost lost” argument, stop and don’t. if they weren’t dominant in your opinion explain why logically. if you just think they weren’t “as dominant” as the Kobe/Shaq Lakers at the peak of their powers? cool. So does everyone else
Then I do hope Kyrie does get the ball and dictate play.